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Talk:Sun Arcana
Overview "...I can't think of any sunny Suns actually. Tatsuya is aloof and angsty, Akinari is aloof and angsty (though more reflective about it), while both P4 Suns were not aloof, they were still angsty." Fair enough, although I've always personally sensed an air of optimism from these characters, despite their horrible circumstances. I attributed their angst to their situations, since the Sun Arcana is never associated with anything other than optimism outside of Persona. Cixer (talk) 01:11, June 4, 2013 (UTC) :That is true. Their situation sucks, but they muscle on through it and develop into that optimistic mindset as their arc goes on. However, with that said, of the four, I'd only refer to Ayane as "sunny". The others become optimistic, but Tatsuya and Yumi still have their angst and Akinari is still somewhat gloomy, even if much more positive. If that makes sense?--Otherarrow (talk) 01:15, June 4, 2013 (UTC) :I agree that Ayane may be the only one who is "sunny". But I don't consider Tatsuya a really representative character of the Sun Arcana, nor do I consider Maya to be of the Moon Arcana. Their alignement to these cards can merely be explained by symbolism (male/sun, female/moon) and it is the first clue to the special bond between them. Also, Persona 2 tends to be more based on astrology than the further installments, and when you look at it, Tatsuya's sign (Leo) is governed by the sun and Maya's sign (Cancer) is governed by the moon. Thus, unlike the Moon and Sun characters in P3 and P4, their alignment with these Arcana doesn't depend much on their personality or situations, though Maya has a few characteristics of the Moon Arcana (mostly a traumatising past). Kiukiu8 (talk) 17:31, September 22, 2014 (UTC) ::It's been argued, rather well IMO, that Tatsuya and Maya, like most main characters representing arcana, start Reversed and develop into the upright meaning as the story goes on. Even from the first game, character personalities have been set up to fit within their arcana, and just because the later games are more blatantly obvious about it doesn't mean that the earlier uses of it just didn't happen. Sometimes, some subtlety goes a long way. (Likewise, they can also be based on astrology. They are not mutually exclusive)--Otherarrow (talk) 17:48, September 22, 2014 (UTC) ::That's an interesting theory indeed. I can now see the evolution pattern of a few characters from Reversed to Upright (like Kei Nanjou), but the association character/arcana I understand the less is Hidehiko/Justice. I mean, Hidehiko does get better and less stupid throughout the story but I don't really see what this has to do with Justice. I also have trouble understanding how Tatsuya and Maya become "Upright". But I haven't completed P2EP yet, so I have yet to observe the character development of Ulala, Katsuya and Baofu. Kiukiu8 (talk) 08:57, September 23, 2014 (UTC) :::Speaking of astrology, did you realize that Maya is placed in the center of the Grand Cross fusion spell?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5PLW8DfLBw&feature=player_detailpage#t=234 This was intended to reflect the planetary Grand Cross in August 1999http://www.abhota.info/grandcrs.htm (although it turned out that all planets didn't quite line up like a cross). In the external link you can see that the Earth (or the moon) was expected to be in the center of the Grand Cross, so Maya, being of the Moon Arcana, has to be crucified and die as the fulfillment of the Oracle of Maia IT'S SO SYMBOLIC. As a side note, the zodiac signs of all 4 lads are evenly spaced by 90 degree and Leo(Tatsuya)-Aquarius(Jun) and Scorpio(Eikichi)-Tarus(Ginko) are on the opposite(detrimental) position, that's why Tatsuya-Jun and Eikichi-Ginko have some complicated relationships. Sadly Tarus' ruling planet, Venus, is between the Sun and the Earth during the August 1999 Grand Cross, so Ginko's position in the Grand Cross fusion sequence is on the totally unrelated Neptune side. (You just can't have everything so conveniently coincidental.) -- Inpursuit (talk) 14:36, September 23, 2014 (UTC) ::Regarding Brown, I'd like to borrow the words from one of the guides at GameFAQs: Justice stands for lawfulness, impartiality, and balance. It is depicted by a seated woman upon a throne holding a scale and a sword. The scale is to balance two sides of an argument and the sword is to cut down any wrongfulness. However this is when Justice is applied to other people's problem. How about when Justice is applied to oneself? In this case, the woman on the throne is the bearer of the arcanum. The bearer holds the scales and determines for himself what he's done in the past to place him in his current situation. With the sword, the bearer cuts down all the things that have been holding him back and realizes what he does in the present will affect him in the future. When related to Brown, this means that though the common definitions for Jus- tice apply to him slightly, it means more about glory to Brown than anything else. How did Brown achieve glory? By being true to himself. For the entirety of the game, Brown did nothing but gloat about his personal, petty successes. He had a huge ego when it was needed to get attention, but when the tables turned on him, he reverted to a scared, weak little boy, such as when he was trapped in jail or when he was attacked by Toro. However, at the ending of the game, we find that Brown has a new found openness when he talks about his past to his audience. At this point, Brown actually gets a good reason to have such a huge ego. He's actually done something successful, and he owes it to being more open about himself, rather than hiding it behind old man jokes and a false ego. He made Justice for himself by analyzing his past and cutting down the crap in his present to balance his future. G.A.S.A (talk) 15:00, September 23, 2014 (UTC) Wow, thanks for the explanation. Although all of the Persona characters are kinda supposed to undergo a personal growth similar to the one described for Brown. I had noticed the opposition between the zodiac signs of Eikichi/Ginko and Tatsuya/Jun. The same can be said in EP with Ulala/Baofu and Maya/Katsuya, but as I said, I've not played that game very far (though far enough to see that Ulala and Baofu argue a lot and that Katsuya is quite intrigued in Maya). I didn't know anything about the Grand Cross theory, so thanks. Kiukiu8 (talk) 16:29, September 23, 2014 (UTC)